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Abortion - Printable Version

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Abortion - Daniel2 - 07-28-2009

Is abortion allowed if it's to save the life of the mother when it's known that childbirth will kill her? I read somewhere that for a Jewish woman, it's permitted in this case, but for gentiles, this does not apply.
Also, since abortion is only considered murder 40 days or more into pregnancy, and before this it is comparable to the sin of spilling a man's seed, does this mean:
a) that life does not start at conception
b) that it is incorrect to say that abortion is murder from day 1 through 39 of pregnancy?


RE: Abortion - Director Michael - 07-29-2009

Daniel2 Wrote:Is abortion allowed if it's to save the life of the mother when it's known that childbirth will kill her? I read somewhere that for a Jewish woman, it's permitted in this case, but for gentiles, this does not apply.

Yes, a woman is allowed to get an abortion if it's to save her life, and this applies for Jewish women and Gentile women.

Daniel2 Wrote:Also, since abortion is only considered murder 40 days or more into pregnancy, and before this it is comparable to the sin of spilling a man's seed, does this mean:
a) that life does not start at conception

The physical life of the person starts at conception, and the spiritual life of the person's soul precedes conception.

Daniel2 Wrote:b) that it is incorrect to say that abortion is murder from day 1 through 39 of pregnancy?

Abortion from day 1 through 39 is forbidden as a sin of killing, but it is not a capital sin.


RE: Abortion - Daniel2 - 04-22-2010

If it can't be absolutely certain that the woman will die from childbirth but there is a risk, would abortion be permitted, or would it depend on how high the risk is? What if childbirth will cause the woman to have serious health problems but there is no lethal danger involved? Also, if a woman does die from childbirth and she wanted to get an abortion while she was alive to save her life but was barred from doing so, would those who prevented her from getting an abortion to save her life be liable for or guilty of any wrongdoing? If the woman knew she would die but chose not to get an abortion to save her life, would this be suicide?
What about cases where the child will be born with a serious mental or physical handicap or deformity? I would assume that this cannot justify abortion.


RE: Abortion - Rabbi Moshe Weiner - 04-26-2010

Daniel2 Wrote:If it can't be absolutely certain that the woman will die from childbirth but there is a risk, would abortion be permitted, or would it depend on how high the risk is?
If doctors determine there is a serious risk of death (and there is no alternative that will reduce the risk - for example, having a Caesarian birth), she is allowed within the Noahide Code to have an abortion.

Daniel2 Wrote:What if childbirth will cause the woman to have serious health problems but there is no lethal danger involved?
This doesn't provide permission within the Noahide Code for having an abortion.

Daniel2 Wrote:Also, if a woman does die from childbirth and she wanted to get an abortion while she was alive to save her life but was barred from doing so, would those who prevented her from getting an abortion to save her life be liable for or guilty of any wrongdoing?
If they knew for sure that she would die because of their (negative) influence, they are liable to punishment from G-d. But since they didn't do an action that was the cause of her death (rather, the direct cause was the childbirth), they would not be liable under the Noahide Code to capital punishment by a court of law. (They might be liable to lesser penalties according to the civil law of the government.)

Daniel2 Wrote:If the woman knew she would die but chose not to get an abortion to save her life, would this be suicide?
No.

Daniel2 Wrote:What about cases where the child will be born with a serious mental or physical handicap or deformity? I would assume that this cannot justify abortion.
Correct.


RE: Abortion - alexdantas - 11-24-2014

Abortion is the same as murder. Murder is not a death sin?
So for the forgiveness of God, would be enough, repentance and change of attitude, that is, never ever, not even think of committing such a sin again.
Although the spiritual level the person will suffer some penalties here in the underworld, after God forgive her, she will be entitled to Olam Haba, right?
My thinking is right? Thanks.


RE: Abortion - Director Michael - 11-28-2014

(11-24-2014, 03:11 AM)alexdantas Wrote: Abortion is the same as murder. Murder is not a death sin?

Yes, murder is a capital sin. The details of the Noahide Commandment regarding the prohibition of murder, including abortion, are presented in "The Divine Ciode," 2nd edition, by Rabbi Moshe Weiner in Jerusalem:

https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

(11-24-2014, 03:11 AM)alexdantas Wrote: So for the forgiveness of God, would be enough, repentance and change of attitude, that is, never ever, not even think of committing such a sin again.

Yes, combined with acceptance and observance of the rest of the Noahide Code, and doing acts of goodness and kindness to help people. Especially doing things for programs that give encouragement, counseling and support for women not to have elective abortions. Here is an example of this type of organization in Israel:

https://www.justonelife.org/

(11-24-2014, 03:11 AM)alexdantas Wrote: Although the spiritual level the person will suffer some penalties here in the underworld, after God forgive her, she will be entitled to Olam Haba, right?

Yes, if she has accepted pious observance of the Torah's Noahide Code, and repented for her transgressions.


RE: Abortion - alexdantas - 01-19-2017

Dear Rav Schulman,

For a person who practiced this crime (abortion) of his own free will, should I severely advise him that in addition to sincere repentance, this person should become an extreme devotee to G'd?

In this way, and only in this way, could she calm the wrath, the righteousness of G'd upon her here in this life?

I personally am having trouble forgiving a person who has committed this terrible crime ... I cry just thinking ...


RE: Abortion - Director Michael - 01-23-2017

(01-19-2017, 09:47 PM)alexdantas Wrote: For a person who practiced this crime (abortion) of his own free will, should I severely advise him that in addition to sincere repentance, this person should become an extreme devotee to G'd?

That is good advice for every person! But you should begin with the level of advice that you think the person could be willing to accept at this point, in order to avoid complete rejection from the outset. If you can get the person to begin moving in the correct direction with his or her beliefs and practices, that is the beginning of a great accomplishment, for the person's own good. Just remember that if your words are spoken from your heart, they will surely go into the other person's heart.

(01-19-2017, 09:47 PM)alexdantas Wrote: In this way, and only in this way, could she calm the wrath, the righteousness of G'd upon her here in this life?

G-d will certainly take note when He sees her going in the right direction, and He is always ready to accept those who sincerely repent, with His open arms.
G-d much prefers to see the end of the person's sins, instead of the end of the sinner himself.

(01-19-2017, 09:47 PM)alexdantas Wrote: I personally am having trouble forgiving a person who has committed this terrible crime ... I cry just thinking ...

That is because you are a limited person, whereas G-d is unlimited, from which we know that His mercy and forgiveness are unlimited. Although those Divine attributes are weighed against G-d's attribute of unlimited judgment and justice, He gives the side of mercy the upper hand. That is what we are taught by the fact that G-d gave Cain the opportunity to repent after he murdered his brother Abel. And even though Cain did not repent with full sincerely, G-d delayed Cain's punishment instead of bringing it immediately. (See Genesis ch. 5, with Rashi's explanations.)