Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Fellowship in a non-Torah community
amenyahu Wrote:1) What is a "wicked" person as stated in an earlier post?

In a Torah context, it means a person who:
- willfully engages in sinful acts (in violation of something he is commanded by G-d to do or not do, from among the 7 general Noahide Commandments, or from among the 613 detailed Jewish Commandments), and/or
- willfully engages in sinful speech (for example, harmful gossip), and/or
- who willfully engages in sinful thoughts (for example, belief in an idol, or thinking about the pleasures of a forbidden sexual relationship).

Depending on the specific transgression and his personal background and situation, a person may or may not be judged *by G-d* as liable regarding that particular thing, if he never learned that G-d commanded for him about that thing, as being prohibited or required.

amenyahu Wrote:2) I feel estranged and possibly become somewhat bitter about a secular society in which I live because their view is exactly that: secular, i.e., godless and denigrating of religion and G-d. Is this wrong? How do I deal with this righteously?

On the one hand, it is justified to have those feelings. On the other hand, you have to realize that G-d is creating the world anew at every instant and in every detail, according to His Divine Providence - for the purpose that through the efforts of pious human beings, it will be increasingly corrected and eventually (soon!) become receptive to His openly and eternally revealed Kingship.

We must remember the example of Abraham and Sarah, the first Patriarch and Matriarch. They were entrenched in a sinful idolatrous society, in which G-d was basically forgotten in the world. Yet they did not become estranged and bitter. They picked up the banner of monotheism - the true monotheism of knowledge of the One True G-d
- and through their methods of offering outstanding goodness and kindness to all, they brought back the universal service of respect and obedience to G-d into the world. They also began the process of bringing back G-d's revealed presence in the world, which was completed through Moses at Mount Sinai. At Mount Sinai, the Torah Laws of the 613 Jewish and 7 Noahide Commandments where transmitted into the world by G-d through Moses, after He revealed Himself openly to the entire Jewish nation (at least 3 million people), to start the process by which mankind prepares for the Messianic Era (may it be revealed immediately!).

Each person can ask himself or herself, "When will my deeds be like the deeds of Abraham and Sarah?"

amenyahu Wrote:3) What is a "fool" speaking in Torah terms? I know there are several Hebrew words that are translated as the english word "fool", but I also know that the english word "fool" doesn't seem to convey the same meaning as the Hebrew words, like "ksil" and "naval."

1) someone who lacks true wisdom (the true wisdom is the wisdom of Torah, which contains G-d's wisdom)

2) someone who behaves, speeks and thinks childishly, even though he's an adult in years

3) someone who sins, because he is overcome by a "spirit of foolishness" -
(i) he foolishly imagines that his sins do not affect his connection with G-d (the Source of true life), or
(ii) he foolishly imagines that he will not be punished in this world, and that his soul will not be punished in the spiritual world, for his unrepentant willful sins, or
(iii) he foolishly imagines that he can willfully sin now, and he assures himself that he will repent later in his life when he's ready, to absolve himself of his sins.
(iv) he foolishly imagines that he doesn't have the strength of will to hold himself back from sinning so he gives in, because he foolishly thinks his desire to do the sin is too strong for him to overcome.

amenyahu Wrote:Am I in the place to judge people as fools?

Sometimes it's obvious. The Hebrew Bible says that a fool reveals himself as such to others, through his manner of speaking and his manner of walking.

amenyahu Wrote:Is it just a case that the people around me are simply misguided because of society, like something that Rambam said about Karaites, being like children raised in captivity?

In our times (the End of Days, just before the Messianic Era), that's usually true about a greater or lesser number of a person's issues, if he's not been raised to know about and obey what he's commanded by the One True G-d, and if he still hasn't learned about that yet or taken it seriously as an adult. (In our time, there are finally active Torah-based outreach efforts to spread the basic message of the Noahide Commandments, as well as in-depth learning that is available for those who move onto that direction. There are also Noahide community groups forming and growing around the word.) But for some things that are foundations for civilized society, a person can't validly claim the excuse of not having learned that it's forbidden (like stealing, or harming or murdering others).

amenyahu Wrote:How do I deal with the different types of fools that the Hebrew Bible speaks of?

Where possible, try to have compassion and pity on them for the errors of their ways. Just having those feelings when you interact with them will subconsciously make their hearts more receptive to the seeds of goodness and piety that you can plant in their minds and hearts, if you choose your words and actions well, and if you are an example of goodness, kindness and righteousness - because they will have a realization in their hearts that they should be emulating that way of life. Most people are sinful or crass or irreverant because they are very self-centered, with regard to their own opinions and their own desires.

The best way to dispell darkness is to turn on a light - even just a small light will automatically dispell a lot of darkness. If you cultivate your own piety, humility and modesty, it can be like a shock treatment to a foolish and wicked person. The other person may defensively act very scorned and indignant or angry about this, but that is the sign that a deep impression has been made. Nevertheless, you should approach people in a positive way, and not in a negative, accusatory way. It is easier for a person to get started by just adding in the positive things that he can presently accept.

amenyahu Wrote:4) Is it wrong of me to judge a person? When I say judge, I don't mean becoming a judge to determine their right to life. I mean to discern and form an opinion in order to guide my actions with regards to how to view and deal with others. I know scripture still advocates some sort of judgment because it speaks of "asot mishpat", doing judgment, in Micah 6 and a verse in Psalm 15 can be interpreted as "in whose eyes a vile person is rejected," and you have to determine who is a vile person. Torah Law says to judge righteously, as in Proverbs 21 that speaks of loving "tzedakah" and "mishpat" is more precious to HaShem than sacrifices. tzedakah seems to understood as "righteousness" and mishpat as "judgment." Plus, in the 7 Laws, there is a law against anarchy or about "dinim" (courts of law), which I believe has implications for how we judge even in our individual lives, especially in this time when there is no Torah government. When I look in The Divine Code, the laws of Dinim seems to cover family life, so I think it is wider ranging that just government, right? How would I know if someone is a fool if I am not allowed to judge? So how and when do I, as a Noahide, judge anything or anyone?

You can personally judge whether a person's ACTS or SPEECH or STATED BELIEFS are sinful, but you can't judge how G-d Himself is judging that person - as liable or not liable, or to what degree. Because that can be judged only with Omniscience, and only G-d has that power.

amenyahu Wrote:sometimes I find it just has hard to deal with the people around me as it is to deal with myself, and dealing with something as troublesome and unruly as myself is hard enough to deal with.

Wisely said :-)

amenyahu Wrote:Thanks for whatever help and guidance you can give.

You're welcome - that is what we are here for!

Messages In This Thread
Fellowship in a non-Torah community - by noodle - 03-19-2008, 10:19 AM
RE: Fellowship in a non-Torah community - by Director Michael - 01-08-2011, 02:36 AM
RE: Religion and community - by Director Michael - 03-21-2008, 07:55 PM
RE: Religion and community - by Director Michael - 03-21-2008, 06:34 PM

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)